Candy Coated Chaos

Valandir · Grandmaster Forum Tart Joined: 07 Jan 2007 Posts: 255

I came across this while randomly looking through the forums for what I missed while I was gone...while I've been learning to deal with the new brigand AI myself, I'm quite interested at seeing exactly how Novo explains the new AI and specifically how LSM works. While I try to get away from LSM as much as possible, I still feel like it'd be great to know how to use it properly when the time comes.

With that said, I can't seem to find it, seeing as the QT site doesn't want to cooperate. Does anyone happen to know if it's still around and where I can find it?

Faldrok · Ultimate Forum Tart Joined: 08 Feb 2007 Posts: 718

Uhh, well, I knew of that method before Novo posted that guide, and I'd say that I've mastered it, but I'm trying to ween myself off of it. It's kinda hard when you can easily go Max-0 with that method, though...so tempting to keep doing it, but I know LSM will get nuked, so I need to learn...

But, no, I think he lost it unless he has a copy saved on his PC. I could always teach the reasoning/method to you or anyone else if you like, but it'll probably be ineffective before long.

Spacehog · Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 1:32 am Post subject:

I was sad enough to save a copy of this to my home computer, so I still have it.

I had actually posted this on TLL's officer bit a few months back, and then Carrol put it on a site to host it.

Here's the link....

http://www.refugeegamers.com/uploads/perc/puzzlepirates/Battle%20Navigation.doc

Now the pictures are still all there, but the video links are all understandably broken now. Still, it's a good guide even if you're not that fantastic at LSM yet (like me!).
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looseweed · Grandmaster Forum Tart Joined: 03 Dec 2006 Posts: 304

The key to the LSM thing is knowing the brigand priority if you're ditw.

When faking ditw:

Brigands will hook you if possible (often with a ram on the final move to turn broadside) then fire into you.

If they can't do that, they'll move to shoot you.

If they can't do that, they'll close the distance as much as they can.

So knowing that priority system, you can predict with near certainty what the brigand is going to do if you fake being DITW. That's step 1.

The other thing to know is that the brigand is going to get a revenge turn, during which he is going to LSM you, and the revenge turn is guaranteed to be the turn after you LSM. (that is where the exploit comes in)

So the way you do it is this:

Fake DITW. (no tokens)
Predict the brigand's move, by the priority list above.
Move in such a way as to shoot the brigand on move sequences 2 and 3.
Turn away from the brigand on move sequence 4, in such a direction that no matter what he does during his revenge turn, you can flee him without risking taking a hit.
During the revenge turn, run like hell.
Lather rinse repeat.

Once you get good at it, you can shoot him on sequence 4 as well, depending on your 'leave.' Good LSM battlenavvers can go max-0 to max-2 in less than 10 turns regularly. I refuse to exploit it to that level, partially because the buttons on my mouse stick sometimes, and partially because I think the devs are going to nuke the exploit part of it at some point, by extending the revenge turn duration or something similar.

Prakamos · Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 2:12 pm Post subject:

Considering how long I've been hearing about LSMing, what makes you think they're gonna pull the plug on it only now loose?

Crazee · Guest

We can live in hope :p

Faldrok · Ultimate Forum Tart Joined: 08 Feb 2007 Posts: 718

Loose, that isn't always true. Early in the battle, the brigand would rather sit there and shoot you 3 or 4 times than grapple. So, if the score is 0-0, 1-0, 0-1, 1-1, etc., they would rather get into a good position (front or back of you) and shoot you like crazy. However, later in the battle, they'll want to grapple as they are running out of tokens. So, you see, there is a bit of skill involved in it as to what to do when... Razz

But I agree it's pretty mindless. I just picked it up because I was fairly new at the game when I learned it (Heh, a year ago exactly...I learned in Feb. of last year sometime), and it just worked way better than my old method, so I did it to make myself and others money.

looseweed · Grandmaster Forum Tart Joined: 03 Dec 2006 Posts: 304

For the record:

I have NO PROBLEM with any of CCC using the LSM exploit. Shit, it's there, use the hell out of it. Learn it well, get rich. Money is good for the flag. Hehe.

Just prepare yourself for if/when they nuke it.

Amatoria · Cabin Person Joined: 19 Nov 2006 Posts: 3

Excuse my ignorance here, but when I learned bnav (oh yes, I'm an old biddy)... wasn't it that LSMing was possible only once and henceforth the brigand would get the extra second to read your move and adept accordingly, so that it only served you to LSM once if it assured you a big advantage (e.g. 3-4 shot landed) for otherwise you'd be worse off for them knowing your moves?

I seem to have missed that they changed it.

Ama
/e not frequenting the YPP forums often

edited cuz I cant spel

Lubricant · Cabin Person Joined: 19 Jul 2007 Posts: 6

I also have some Battle navving advice.

If you can get right behind them, they will do almost nothing except try to predict weather you will move to their left or right. I have done this quite a few times, and they had plenty of time to get movement.

Please alert me on this thread if you think I'm stupid for making this suggestion.

Lubricant · Cabin Person Joined: 19 Jul 2007 Posts: 6

By behind them, I mean get your left or right side to theback of their boat.

looseweed · Grandmaster Forum Tart Joined: 03 Dec 2006 Posts: 304

Just so any newbies who come by and read the thread know - Novo's method is worthless now, unless the brigand is stationary. The revenge mode still works the same, but the brigand's response to you faking to be DITW is highly variable, so you can't predict where he'll be to get shots on him.

Here was some advice I gave for navving vs a real opponent, or vs the new AI:

Start by pretending you're the other boat, and spend the first 10 seconds mapping out the most aggressive moves he could possibly make. Spend the next 10 seconds laying in a move for yourself that guarantees you won't get shot or hooked by any of his moves. Spend 5 seconds laying in shots on any sequence where you might still hit him, then spend the rest of the time checking for errors. Vs the really hardasses, you have to start looking one turn ahead to make sure you aren't getting yourself cornered by rocks and wind.

That's really all there is to it. Just do that for a couple of years and you get a real good sense of which moves are stronger than others.